Curse

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 20, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Wow, thanks to those who posted your support. It gives me hope that there are some people who think more about what should be done than what "can" be done.

Now to address the naysayers, I'm not gonna bother with the quote fest that would be so If I leave out your point, sorry.

First, I don't buy the argument that the fact that many of the players didnt appreciate monks justifies anything. I mean really, every class has it's idiots and monks are certainly no different, particularly now that monks are like penisroaches. (wouldnt let me say "rooster"roaches) The idea that you had to put up with being so terribly mistreated as a monk means that the class should be so unbalanced is purely a copout excuse in my opinion.

As far as it being great for the economy, I'm not so sure. Ya, Ecto's cheaper, but for the newer monks superior runes went insane, I havent seen any at the trader since the patch, but before the "fix" for the traders a full set of runes was what? 2x, 3x a guild hall?? Not so sure thats great for the economy, I payed 6k for my first full set of runes.

Someone said something about it being like skateboarding. Well, you may have me a bit there, There was something about being a good monk, because there weren't many about. I dont know that such has really changed, its not like soloing takes alot, but yea, some of the vaneer is gone, say what you will, but had you been one of the few you wouldnt dig suddenly being one of the many, human nature.

Someone else attempted to give me the arsehole by backhandedly calling me a hypocrite because I said I soloed before the 105 went public. It wasnt the same, it was expermenting, not farming, and it wasnt the 105, which in my view is an abuse of a broken skill, say what you will of that, i'll not be convinced otherwise. So, no, its not really the same thing.

To clarify the comment on the TGH forums, I'm really not impressed with the moderation there. First, I was banned because I had an unpopular opinion in contradiction of a very popular. ( on that board at least) poster To put it in perspective for you, imagine walking into the bar on "cheers" and hearing "Norm" Say GO TO HELL ASSHAT! because he doesn't like your opinion, If you answer back you can expect the whole bar to be up in arms. That was a temp ban, my Permaban came after some other asshat made a post which begged anet to explain to him why the game isnt like it was in beta. To illustrate a point I made a thread asking anet why they didnt clearly explain to some folks what beta testing is about, and how beta doesnt always = retail. One of the mods deleted the asshats thread (after I posted mine ) on the grounds that he never posts anything else and it was repetitive, then Lord Asshat moderator deletes my thread and further bans me for reposting deleted material, which of course is false because the material wasnt the same and was posted before the asshat's material was deleted... So yea, If you are looking for a PVP whine fest, head to the TGH, but don't suggest talking about anything else.

Nash, really I expected better than "noob" out of you. Maybe I shouldnt have, maybe anyone who disagrees with you is a "noob". If you're gonna get offensive in a personal fashion I'd hope for something a little more creative.

Whoever stated that my requesting the removal of pvp only characters from the rp game invalidates the rest of my post is clearly someone with no interest in anything but pvp, so I cant say as I really concern myself said opinion. GW could be the best RPG on the net, Its got the potential to have the best cooperative play, but for that to happen anet needs to stop trying to please the FPS crowd and the RP crowd with one combined experience, the two camps will never see eye to eye on whats and enjoyable experience. Thus, the people who whine about the so-called grind in GW will always be cheapening the RP game in thier belief that they should never have to do anything twice, get real.

The anology of the droks/elite clowns in the ascalon/shiverpeak arenas being no worse than a wo/mo who doesnt bring sig is laughably false. The guy who doesn't bring sig can get yelled at and bring it the next time. The guy in droks with the elite skill has gone out of his way (or more likely had someone drag him out of his way) to exploit the fact that new players (who do exist and fight in those arenas) have no means of competing if the playing field is not level. To a man those people will say "well go get the skill/armor, then you can compete." My arguement is that if people werent lame and brining shit to the arenas that does not belong there, everyone could compete and it would be fun. I personally dont go out of my way to have the edge over people in the noob arenas and I still have fun, as much as the high end pvp people complain that its not competitive enough I'd have thought they would do more to foster competition at the entry level of pvp. How many young players do you think get fed up with the lame advantages some people feel they need to give themselves and write off pvp entirely....So no, I belive that is a very poor anology.

Time to get some lunch in me, so I'll finish this post by saying again this game would be alot better if more people thought less about what they can do and more about what should be done.

SOT · Aug 20, 2005, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

Its WAY past time for anet to unfark that class. There is no call for monks to be able to solo where no other class even has a prayer of doing so.

If you are unsuccessfully soloing as any class type/matchup other than monk, I seriously question your ability to play the game well. My very first character was a ranger mesmer, and she soloed fine up to Lion's Arch without any help or input from whiners, bitchers, griefers, scammer,gangsta's, or internet tough guys.

Curious....

If you ever want some assistance in the game with missions or quests, my warrior/MONK, or my Ranger/NECRO, or my warrior/elementalist would be happy to pee on your misconceptions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

F the TGH forums! Right in thier stupid ears! Banned from that forum because the moderators are all for UAS implementation RIGHT NOW. I even agree, Please anet, pretty please, give the PVP only players who want the game to be like counterstrike or any other FPS (except in 3rd person) thier skills and let them have thier little fights all damn day and get them out of my roleplaying game. Thats right, seperate them, Let PVE characters face ONLY PVE characters in the contest for favor. If the PVP only players dispise the RP game so much that they cant do anything in it more than once without crying about grind, get them the hell out. Grind, ROFL, as if they have the slightest idea about what grind is if they think its so awful in GW...Must have come straight from quake. Yep, banned from a forum because I suggested we talk about something else besides UAS just once....F TGH.

Somehow I think you left out a significant portion of your own responsibility in being banned from a forum that I have never had a problem with concerning SUGGESTIONS WE DISCUSS SOMETHING ELSE. No, it would not POSSIBLY have ANYTHING to do with HOW you went about it

Troll. End of sentence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

Wow, thanks to those who agree with me out of hand rather than challenge my obviously flawed thoughtstream. Of course everyone knows that I am the son of god and have the final say in the game design, and that my word is law, and that if you disagree with me, you are simply uninformed. It coult not POSSIBLY be because you have common sense I lack. No.

That is what you MEANT to say.

wolfy3455 · Aug 20, 2005, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

F every last bandwagon 105 monk. (oh, excuse me I didnt mean to slight those who think they are special by switching off hand items, sorry 55'ers that goes for you too.)

Its WAY past time for anet to unfark that class. There is no call for monks to be able to solo where no other class even has a prayer of doing so. Prot bond is broken as all hell. I'm sick of all the monks running around pleased with themselves because they too jumped on the bandwagon. I simply cannot wait untill Anet fixes it and those bandwagon monks go back to doing whatever they did before.

Now, before anyone jumps to the assumption that I'm some other class and just jealous, i've been a monk forever, and I was soloing before the 105 went public and EVERYONE and thier F'ing brother made monks. So its not envy. The class is unbalanced and Anet needs to get off thier asses and fix it.

Agreed, the excuse I hear sound like excuses from D2 botters. "You could do it so its your fault you don't." For anyone that thinks it doesn't hurt: learn basic economics, you may be keeping ectos price stable but your lowering the general value of gold by the huge influx. Its called inflation.

Quote:

Can someone please explain to me who started this thought that its cool to bring elite skills to the ascalon and shiverpeak arenas? or Droks armor? Am I the only person in this playerbase who thinks thats just plain weak???? Usually the argument is "well you're just mad cause you cant". Wrong, I can, I've got plenty of money with which to do so, I just think its lame as all hell to bring that stuff which does not belong into those arenas, yet another thing for anet to fix..

Again, I agree with this. Theres enough balance problems in higher level competition that Anet really doesn't need a bunch of kids that can't compete at higher levels making problems with the lower levels.

Quote:

F the TGH forums! Right in thier stupid ears! Banned from that forum because the moderators are all for UAS implementation RIGHT NOW. I even agree, Please anet, pretty please, give the PVP only players who want the game to be like counterstrike or any other FPS (except in 3rd person) thier skills and let them have thier little fights all damn day and get them out of my roleplaying game. Thats right, seperate them, Let PVE characters face ONLY PVE characters in the contest for favor. If the PVP only players dispise the RP game so much that they cant do anything in it more than once without crying about grind, get them the hell out. Grind, ROFL, as if they have the slightest idea about what grind is if they think its so awful in GW...Must have come straight from quake. Yep, banned from a forum because I suggested we talk about something else besides UAS just once....F TGH.

/rant off for real this time.

Completely disagree. TGH mods have their opinions but they don't act on them. They lock pro-UAS as well as "whining against whines". They're willing to let in a good deal of flaming because major changes rarely occur without conflict, and they understand that. I commend them for that. Don't bash them because you did something stupid and got banned.

Also, about your seperation. There are some players that play both. We would prefer to play against hardcore pvpers with all the skills than people that can *omg* solo up to lions arch.

Myria · Aug 20, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

[...] Its [Guild Wars] got the potential to have the best cooperative play, but for that to happen anet needs to stop trying to please the FPS crowd and the RP crowd with one combined experience, the two camps will never see eye to eye on whats and enjoyable experience.

They'll never see eye-to-eye because the desires of the two sides are, in too many areas, wholly mutually exclusive. There is no way to resolve the disagreement save to, as you say, separate them completely. This seems terminally obvious and would seem to have little in the way of down-side for either camp, why more people aren't calling for -- more like screaming for -- a PVP/PVE divorce escapes me.

Mystical · Aug 20, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

I have to agree with the poster who mentioned the economy. Yes, I did realized you responded to it, Elistan.

Firstly, I am building a 105/55 monk.

That said, I believe this build to be a good thing to the economy. The more of these monks, the more "good" items are flooding the market (just like Dzan said about Ecto), the more prices dwindle. Now, you may say this isn't fair to the casual player, the one who just plays the game and does not farm. I say to you, no, if "EVERYONE and thier F'ing brother made monks" for the purpose of a 105/55 monk, prices will drop fast and they'll be able to afford them easily.

About the monk superior runes, that's a tricky one and one that should see those that hate the 105/55 monk happy. Superior runes are hard to get from the trader for a cheap price, so the soon-to-be farmers have to spend an arm and a leg to build thier monk. The "legit" monks may have an agrument here that they can't complete thier build with doing so too. I believe there sound be superior monk runes left right now, but there are people out there that buy the runes just to resell. One of your guild mates should have either a 105/55 monk or someone who just got plain lucky and found one. Guild mates should be happy to help complete your build.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 20, 2005, 05:42 PM // 17:42

He's calling for a nerf to the 55/105 monks. I agree with him: protective bond is a broken skill, the 55/105 build is an exploit, and ANet needs to balance things. Saying that isn't trolling just because you and other 55/105's feel threatened by it. Maybe he's a troll, but that issue is a valid topic of discussion.

The cursing, however, only detracts from his point, and criticising TGH mods in a GWguru forum is pointless at best.

Red Locust · Aug 20, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by HH-

That said, I believe this build to be a good thing to the economy. The more of these monks, the more "good" items are flooding the market (just like Dzan said about Ecto), the more prices dwindle.

Huh? If everyone but you farms, everyone but you will have a lot of money to buy equipment with. The more common cash becomes, the higher the prices go, since gold will drop in value. A few weeks after game release you'd never have paid more than 50plat for anything, yet now you regularly see people selling things for 100plat+20ecto or whatever ridiculous price you can think of. The more money there is circulating around, the more expensive things will be.

Vwoss · Aug 20, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

It's too bad that solo farming is one of the most effective ways of obtaining gold in this game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

He's calling for a nerf to the 55/105 monks. I agree with him: protective bond is a broken skill, the 55/105 build is an exploit, and ANet needs to balance things. Saying that isn't trolling just because you and other 55/105's feel threatened by it. Maybe he's a troll, but that issue is a valid topic of discussion.

The cursing, however, only detracts from his point, and criticising TGH mods in a GWguru forum is pointless at best.

Exploit? An exploit is taking advantage of an unintended feature. I'm sure Anet knew of Prot Bond's power.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 20, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

Huh? If everyone but you farms, everyone but you will have a lot of money to buy equipment with. The more common cash becomes, the higher the prices go, since gold will drop in value. A few weeks after game release you'd never have paid more than 50plat for anything, yet now you regularly see people selling things for 100plat+20ecto or whatever ridiculous price you can think of. The more money there is circulating around, the more expensive things will be.

Thank you.

Oh and Numa, Sorry if I offended with the cursing, i'm going to chalk it up to not sleeping and having been a Marine, Sometimes we cursed alot, and sometimes I slip into that. I'll try not to do that again.

Mhydrian · Aug 20, 2005, 05:52 PM // 17:52

I have a monk since GW started, and havent bothered to make him into a uber 105 build or a smiter build. Mostly becuase its incredibly lame, and in part these cheesy monk builds are what ruined the game for me.

Aniewiel · Aug 20, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

OK I have cleaned up some of the more colorful personal flames. Keep to topic without insults please and this thread will stay open. If you want to call eachother naughty names (

), do so in PMs.

I'll keep an eye out here.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 20, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vwoss

It's too bad that solo farming is one of the most effective ways of obtaining gold in this game.

Exploit? An exploit is taking advantage of an unintended feature. I'm sure Anet knew of Prot Bond's power.

I'm not so sure that prot bond was ever intended to cost one energy point while doing it job. That one point changes everything, its easy enough for me to belive that said named one point was an oversight.

Endowed Johnson · Aug 20, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Speaking as a monk, of ALL secondary professions, it is ppl like the original poster and many others in this thread that make me THRILLED that monks can solo various places and reap the rewards thereof. After partying thru missions and ea's with the ilk of the original poster, I'd grown tired of the LEEROY JEENKINS approach of dying one's way to the completion of a goal thanks to the subtarded nature of one's available party choices. Anywhere a party is forming, there is one guy without one screaming - " HAVE BEETIN GAEM! AM HEAR JUTS TO KPATURE SKILLZ OR SOEMTING - I R LEET ". This is your sure sign of a your party has been defeated notice in the immediate future if you get this guy. The original poster is probably a local leader of this union. This game is totally balanced. After having to deal with "people" like many in this thread to get to certain points in the game and do certain thing, we can finally do without them and not have to share the rewards with npc henchmen.

Next thing you know, he'll be complaining that everyone can solo Ascention... and its just not fair ppl can do it without him... LMAO.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 20, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vwoss

It's too bad that solo farming is one of the most effective ways of obtaining gold in this game.

Yes, and even if Protective Bond was completely removed from the game, the thousands-and-rapidly-increasing of 55/105 monks could still solo farm. Just not the underworld, because they'd no longer be horribly superior to all other classes wrt farming.

Quote:

Exploit? An exploit is taking advantage of an unintended feature. I'm sure Anet knew of Prot Bond's power.

Yeah, I'm sure they intended for monks to be completely immune from physical damage by putting on 5 superior runes (one of them a duplicate), and switch between a necromancer item from the newbie quests around Ascalon to bring their health _down_ and an item to give them 20% chance at 17 protection.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 20, 2005, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endowed Johnson

Speaking as a monk, of ALL secondary professions, it is ppl like the original poster and many others in this thread that make me THRILLED that monks can solo various places and reap the rewards thereof. After partying thru missions and ea's with the ilk of the original poster, I'd grown tired of the LEEROY JEENKINS approach of dying one's way to the completion of a goal thanks to the subtarded nature of one's available party choices. Anywhere a party is forming, there is one guy without one screaming - " HAVE BEETIN GAEM! AM HEAR JUTS TO KPATURE SKILLZ OR SOEMTING - I R LEET ". This is your sure sign of a your party has been defeated notice in the immediate future if you get this guy. The original poster is probably a local leader of this union. This game is totally balanced. After having to deal with "people" like many in this thread to get to certain points in the game and do certain thing, we can finally do without them and not have to share the rewards with npc henchmen.

Next thing you know, he'll be complaining that everyone can solo Ascention... and its just not fair ppl can do it without him... LMAO.

Rofl, again with the personal attacks. Of course all those judgements you made of me are valid cause we played together in a group when?? If you've never grouped with me how can you possibly know anything about how well I do in groups? You're right though, there are quite alot of those people who die thier way thru things, or just get lamely drug around, I however was never either of those.

Still, in my opinion claiming that other players aren't good enough to group with as a justification for exploiting prot bond to solo in UW is nothing but a lame copout excuse. A mesmer would have to put up with those same players you so easily disdain instead of teaching how to play game. So why should a monk not have to put up with the same players a mesmer would?? You're logic is flawed. Monks are currently unbalanced. Its an exploit, as I can't make myself belive that Anet ever intended either of the favor dependant EA's soloable.

As far as it being unfair that people can do things without me?? where do you get that from? I'm a monk, I could to this with EASE, just like every other bandwagon person out there. Its not like its difficult when you've got the cookie cutter build. Its not a matter of whats fair or unfair to me, its a matter of whats balanced and unbalanced in the game, and right now, monks are unbalanced.

wolfy3455 · Aug 20, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endowed Johnson

Speaking as a monk, of ALL secondary professions, it is ppl like the original poster and many others in this thread that make me THRILLED that monks can solo various places and reap the rewards thereof. After partying thru missions and ea's with the ilk of the original poster, I'd grown tired of the LEEROY JEENKINS approach of dying one's way to the completion of a goal thanks to the subtarded nature of one's available party choices. Anywhere a party is forming, there is one guy without one screaming - " HAVE BEETIN GAEM! AM HEAR JUTS TO KPATURE SKILLZ OR SOEMTING - I R LEET ". This is your sure sign of a your party has been defeated notice in the immediate future if you get this guy. The original poster is probably a local leader of this union. This game is totally balanced. After having to deal with "people" like many in this thread to get to certain points in the game and do certain thing, we can finally do without them and not have to share the rewards with npc henchmen.

Next thing you know, he'll be complaining that everyone can solo Ascention... and its just not fair ppl can do it without him... LMAO.

Its monks like you that make me THRILLED that my guild has plenty of monks so I never have to rely on elitists. Honestly, after playing a monk through the game and capping all monk skills, I completely disagree that monks are the most overworked and underappreciated. They are the most overworked and overappreciated. You can do missions without them.

The Amazing Krandor · Aug 20, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugon M. Musashi

after playing a monk from the official launch of GW and being blamed for just everything that goes bad, I find it's just a little compensation that I can farm as efficiently now

While I agree that some of the 105-ers may be previously-set-upon Monks who were always on the receiving end of criticism from poor players and are now laughing their way to the bank, I suspect the majority of 105-ers have never played a Monk in their lives until it became known that doing so could result in easy money.

Such is the way of this game. Once it became known that running was profitable, everyone and their brother built runners. Now, UW farming as a Monk is the pathway to easy cash, so that's what everyone's doing. And when the next "big money maker" build comes along, you'll see an increase in the numbers for that build, as well.

In other words, the prevalance of Monk farmers has little to do with retribution for putting up with loser PCs, and everything to do with getting rich quick.

Gwenhywar · Aug 20, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

I'm sick of all the monks running around pleased with themselves because they too jumped on the bandwagon.

translation: "I'm sick of dying of jealousy because some people still have something fun to do in PvE, while I don't?"

Pathetic post, no other comment to the OP.

P.S. I'm one of those that made their monk wayyy before I even learned what farming is. Being sick tired of having to group with yet another bunch of incompetents and jerks to go to UW, I LOVE the chance to explore at least part of it on my own. Not like I get there often anyway, since I play on european server.

Mumblyfish · Aug 20, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Protective Bond isn't broken, PvE is broken. And Underworld especially is a snooze. Rather than beating the snot out of a poor ickle skill, how about Anet implement frequent Enchantment rending/shattering/desecrating, Energy draining and interrupts, along with a healthy dose of conditions and health degen? Or would people then start complaining that PvE started to get interesting?

Sainte · Aug 20, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

I agree that there are many idiotic people making monks for the sole purpose of invinci-farming.

Although I have one, I made my monk on the 3rd day of playing, approximately 3 1/2 months ago, because I got bored of my elem. Hell, I actually had the build working when runes were 1-2k each, and before it was posted.

I really hate all the stupid people playing the monk class now, its emberassing when I see people begging for help when there are PAGES of information, down to the last detail laied out for them.